Meetings/20111203

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Agenda

Meeting Summary

  • We plan to release both 3.66 and 3.90 alpha 1 ASAP. Aiming for 11 December 2011.
  • We made some plans for the multiple sites feature
  • We accepted the proposed mission statement
  • We worked on the privacy policy and plan to improve it to include our data retention/deletion policy. We decided to leave it draft for now.
  • Dipohl offered to help improve our database schema
  • We discussed our meeting at FOSDEM next year and made some plans

Meeting Log

*** ericthefish changes topic to "Support Incident Tracker (GPL) ☆ Tracking Incidents for 10 years ☆ http://sitracker.org/ 
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<ericthefish> ok... i'll start
<ericthefish> I don't think there's a lot to discuss this time
<ericthefish> the first thing I wanted to talk about was lack of time
<ericthefish> as in, the lack of time I've had to spend on SiT! over the past year
<ericthefish> and potentially the lack of time I will have to spend on SiT! over the next year
<tomse> plural :-P
<ericthefish> yeah we've all been really busy, unexpectedly so
<ericthefish> 2010 was a busy year but 2011 has just been mental for me
<ericthefish> if we'd have had the time that we had in 2009 we'd have finished 3.90 a long time ago
<ericthefish> it depresses me a little that we're still working on 3.90 after so long and we've even reduced the scope of our ambitions a lot
<ericthefish> I don't see that there is a light at the end of the tunnel, I expect to be as busy (if not busier) in 2012 to be honest
<ericthefish> so.... given that... I'd like to try and aim for us to get more people involved with the project
<ericthefish> to help out
<tomse> sounds good
<ericthefish> we should be clear about what we need help with and when somebody shows an interest, make it easy for them to get involved
<Nicdev007> I'm here sorry for being late
<ericthefish> I'm not really sure how we recruit more people, but we do have quite a collection of people who visit the forum who may help out in small ways
<ericthefish> welcome Nicdev007 no worries
<ericthefish> I do think one thing we could do to encourage more enthusiam is to release 3.90...
<ericthefish> i know that sounds a bit backwards, release 3.90 to get help with 3.90... but I think it's true that the more people see it, the more people will want to help work on it
* dipohl agrees
<Nicdev007> yes i agree ericthefish .. 3.90 should be our primary target .. but I have quite busy too
<ericthefish> so... i've said before i'd like to release an alpha of 3.90, and when I said that I intended us to work on it some more before doing so...
<Nicdev007> where are we on 3.90beta?
<ericthefish> but we've not had time, any of us, I think it can't hurt now if we just bite the bullet and release already
<ericthefish> beta is some time away yet
<tomse> alpha release is good
<ericthefish> we originally planned an alpha 1 for 10 september, but that date came and went
<tomse> people can also report bugs on the new features implemented then
<Nicdev007> is 3.90 in GiT stable?
<ericthefish> the "beta" milestone in my mind implies that the release is feature-complete, 3.90 isn't quite there yet (though it is quite close now)
<ericthefish> Nicdev007: I wouldn't say it's particularly unstable, but I would call it "untested", it's never been used with a large amount of data or for a long period by many people AFAIK
<tomse> Nicdev007: the stuff I've tested, and apart from the bugs already registered, I'd say yes it's stable for testing
<Nicdev007> so what do you propose, to release a 3.90 alpha (as Git is now)
<ericthefish> it's certainly good for installing on a non-production machine and trying out, but I really really wouldnt recommend upgrading from 3.6x to 3.90 yet
<ericthefish> yes I think so, release as it is, with a big disclaimer saying that it may (well DOES) contain bugs
<tomse> it's good for releasing so plugin devs can adjust their plugins to support the new structure
<Nicdev007> what i can throw into the pool is to test a 3.90 alpa release ... and try to fix some small bugs (erm features)
<ericthefish> that'd be great
<ericthefish> any objections or modifications to that proposal then?
<tomse> Nicdev007: that also implies the Kriplyana theme.. you might see a few places still that has the base blue rather than purple
<Nicdev007> i can run it on our server as a "test install" and run through the base tests
<Nicdev007> those i can fix, but atm i don't have the time to work on "big" bugs
<tomse> big bugs -> ericthefish & paul :-)
<Nicdev007> no objections
<ericthefish> I'm not a bug
<Nicdev007> erm .. i meant "features"
<tomse> we'll split the small bugs between us
<Nicdev007> LOL
<ericthefish> i'm a feature
<Nicdev007> ROTFL
<tomse> ROTFL
<Nicdev007> Go for me ericthefish
<ericthefish> ok then, I think we'll do that then, though of course this relies on me finding time to actually do it
<ericthefish> I do have some time off before xmas so hopefully I can do it then
<Nicdev007> are you going to release it as a "tag" of the GiT branch?
<Nicdev007> for lack of the correct terminology
<ericthefish> yes
<tomse> it'll be a good time to test the tagging of git too
<ericthefish> yeah that'll be a first
<Nicdev007> ok, when you have i have a week (between Christmas and NewYear) a i'm taking the "hold the fort" week this year
<Nicdev007> so i should have some time to test with a "real" database
<ericthefish> also, I plan to release 3.66 shortly, as you may know there are some security issues found in 3.65 that warrant another release asap
<ericthefish> most are fixed already but I'm testing an mopping up the remainder today (hopefully)
<Nicdev007> yes i need to get ours from 3.62 -> 3.66 .. so i'll be testing anyway
<ericthefish> ok
<Nicdev007> i have to anyway ...
<ericthefish> next on the agenda is the multiple sites feature...
<ericthefish> not sure who put this on the agenda?  was that you tomse?
<Nicdev007> ah yes ... what was the bug number
<tomse> ericthefish: I think so
<ericthefish> do you want to lead this discussion then?
<tomse> I'll do a sum-up first.
<tomse> we've discussed this ealier but didn't seem to come to a conclusion
<dipohl> do we have a ER-Diagram of the DB?
<dipohl> in the wiki?
<ericthefish> dipohl: no, sorry
<tomse> we've had several (quite alot actually) forum requests about how a single contact can add/track requests for different sites
<tomse> today a single contact can admin several sites.
<dipohl> I will volunteer in the field DB-Documentation then
<ericthefish> dipohl: thanks, that would be useful
<Nicdev007> tomse yes now i remember .. we need this feature too
<tomse> but as we haven't come to a conclusion about this yet, I thought it proper to bring it up again
<Nicdev007> can i state an example?
<ericthefish> sure
<Nicdev007> on one site we may have several "teams" and they need to see each others incidents, or a team leader that needs to see the incidents of the engineers that work under him
<ericthefish> are you talking of engineers meaning people who help solve support issues?  or end-users who report issues?
<Nicdev007> so the idea is or the site admin to create some "groups" within the site and specify a "team leader" who can see the teams incidents, but he may also be a team leader for another site
<tomse> we have 2 bugs about this, but they are only acknowledged
<Nicdev007> ericthefish: end-users
<ericthefish> ok
<Nicdev007> so a guy could be sort of a team manager for teams on multiple sites
<Nicdev007> i did once start this as a plugin but did not get that far ... it needs an interface to "create" the sites included in the guys portfolio
<Nicdev007> and then changes to the portal
<ericthefish> what exists at the moment is the ability to have a ontact able to manage incidents for multiple sites so long as he has contracts that relate to multiple sites
<dipohl> this needs especially a proper DB-Model
<ericthefish> we need to decide how we're going to proceed with 'sites' probably, we've discussed making sites have a hierarchy
<Nicdev007> yes hierarchy is needed because we may more than one such a person on one site ..
<Nicdev007> sort of a sub-site grouping....
<ericthefish> I'm not sure how to proceed with it tbh, it seems more work than we have time for
<tomse> the issues in mantis are only acknowledged..
<Nicdev007> i think it is quite a lot of work too ... it can be done as a plugin initially maybe ericthefish and then later incorporated??
<tomse> it would be nice to have them targeted
<dipohl> -> 5.x
<ericthefish> if it could be done as a plugin, but I'm not sure that's possible
<ericthefish> sorry I'm sounding negative today, I'll try and stop
<tomse> no worries
<Nicdev007> i think it can actually, but we ned hooks in all the right places
<ericthefish> it is a feature we badly need I know
<tomse> it's a complex subject
<Nicdev007> *need
<tomse> that sounds kinky Nicdev007
<dipohl> the workaround today is, that the contact person has multiple accounts (one for each site?)
<dipohl> ?
<Nicdev007> but to attack a plugin like this one needs to be sure on the exact way to proceed otherwise it will take too long
<ericthefish> dipohl: the workaround is that the contact person has multiple contracts one for each site
<ericthefish> but there are bugs with our implementation of that, especially in the portal
<tomse> it'll require some graphical documentation/hiearchy
<ericthefish> which is really what bug 1692 is hinting at
-sitbot- Bug 1692 - racing57 - acknowledged - open
-sitbot- Multiple Site control - http://bugs.sitracker.org/view.php?id=1692
<Nicdev007> ericthefish: there is no feature though to group people within sites
<Nicdev007> so the workaround is only for half the problem i think
<ericthefish> Nicdev007: how do you mean?  sites have contacts, that's grouping them?
<Nicdev007> groups within the group of a specific site .. the "teams" idea
<ericthefish> yes I see, no that doesn't exist all really, I didn't fully understand what is needed for that though
<Nicdev007> like a "software support" and a "hardware support" group for example .. and their leaders can see the respective groups incidents for that site
<Nicdev007> i know why as well ...
<dipohl> but I read in the docs that you have this "admin-contact" for a site
<Nicdev007> ys dipohl but he can see the incidents for all of the site ...
<ericthefish> I think we do have that already, what we don't have is the ability to have a parent site, i.e. put the "software support" site and the "hardware support" site into a site called "all support"
<Nicdev007> yes ericthefish that is a good start anyway .. we can develop the second from that
<ericthefish> dipohl: admin contacts are set on contracts but you are correct in that those people can admin a whole site
<ericthefish> Nicdev007: in your scenario would there be one person who should see all the incidents from all the "groups" ?
<Nicdev007> yes the admin contact as it is today
<Nicdev007> ericthefish: in our case we support people on the site that support the end user in return ... we rarely support and end-user direct
<Nicdev007> so on a site we could have 2 or 3 guys supporting a type of product
<Nicdev007> product is maybe a bad word there
<ericthefish> ok
<Nicdev007> thus our "support teams" log the incidents via the portal
<ericthefish> i see that they need a better portal really, since they're not end users managing lots of incidents is more important to them
<Nicdev007> i think to put the hierarchy in place is a good start .. we should split this into 2 features
<ericthefish> as is sharing incidents between them rather than having just their own incidents
<Nicdev007> ericthefish: exactly
<ericthefish> so.. fundamentally, if it's possible to say.  what is the most important thing that you think is needed relating to this?  what single feature is badly lacking and causing problems?
<ericthefish> is it the sharing of incidents, or the logical grouping of sites?
<Nicdev007> sharing of incidents i'd say ...
<Nicdev007> grouping of sites is another feature for me anyway
<tomse> based on forum talk.. logical grouping of sites
<ericthefish> so that all people in the hardware group can share ?
<Nicdev007> yes
<ericthefish> ok I think i have it clearer now thanks
<tomse> wouldn't that need a "support portal" ?
<ericthefish> I think what Nicdev007 wants is already kinda possible, though probably not in the way he wants, it means changing the way the sites/contracts/contacts are set up
<tomse> perhaps that could be done with a rather large plugin
<Nicdev007> the more i think about it, the more i think it should be 2 different features
* dipohl agrees to Nicdev007
<Nicdev007> the use of the portal has "exploded" in our case over the last few months and now the need for a better portal has become almost a daily request
<ericthefish> yeah it does sound that would be best
<ericthefish> I'm all for making improvements to the portal, definately good
<tomse> Nicdev007: have you
<tomse> whoops
<tomse> -- written down all the requests ?
<Nicdev007> yeah i have most of them as emails ...
<Nicdev007> we had a 5% usag of the portal in July .. now it is at 35%
<Nicdev007> *usage
<tomse> it might be a good thing if you can add them to mantis under a meta bug
<dipohl> concerning the DB-Model: I see more importance to work on the 3.90 DB - am I right?
<ericthefish> i agree that could be useful
<Nicdev007> it makes sense for our support guys because they have sent support requests to us for maybe 10 or 12 end-users .. so to manage them in the portal i much easier
<ericthefish> dipohl: yes I think so, though there are few changes anyway
<tomse> but this is alittle sidetracked from the subject
<Nicdev007> I'll put those request in Mantis on Monday
<dipohl> In my office we have - may be - a similuar situation, that I would like to tell about
<tomse> I think it should be a feature to be enabled/disabled in the config
<ericthefish> tomse: what do you mean by "it" which bit exactly?
<ericthefish> dipohl: go ahead
<tomse> ericthefish: the extended portal
<dipohl> We have a second department, where IT-Admins are working
<dipohl> I work in the central services department
<dipohl> the other work on applications
<dipohl> as admins and developers
<dipohl> At the moment, the colleauges from the "app-department" are contacts and not engineers
<dipohl> in Sit!
<Nicdev007> dipohl: i can see how you can have the same issue as us ...
<dipohl> I talked about this issue earlier here, that we want a separation in groups in SiT! backend
<Nicdev007> ericthefish: i have an idea ... ouch that hurt
<tomse> haha
<ericthefish> mm?
<Nicdev007> wht if we design a potal 2 .. starting with the current portal code .. then the admin can choose which portal he wants to use
<ericthefish> I'm not so keen on that idea, duplicated code is bad
<Nicdev007> it makes the development maybe easier
<ericthefish> i've no objections to extending the existing portal, it's easy for us to make things configurable if there are features that would only apply in certain cases
<ericthefish> easier in what way?
<Nicdev007> we can develop the portal2 as a feature in // with the current code without breaking the current portal for the ones who use it as is
<Nicdev007> without holding up the dev plan
<ericthefish> it can be developed in a branch if it's something that will cause a lot of breakage and take a while, but I see no harm in keeping the current codebase
<Nicdev007> exactly ... from what i remember this could break the current portal and will take quite a bit of time
<Nicdev007> having said that it now sounds more like a plugin :-D
<Nicdev007> Haahahahaha
<ericthefish> dipohl: to come back to your comments, I think you were asking for seperation for users (engineers) and the incidents that they could see/manage is that right?
<dipohl> yes
<tomse> thinking of the code here.. add a new row to contacts 'groupid'  and have a new table contactgroups where there are 2-3 predefined groups   1= normal contact 2 = admincontact 3 =  extended admin (the new one Nicdev007 requests)
<ericthefish> I have a problem with that, because it goes against one of my strong beliefs about the way support should be provided. I don't particuarly like information silos
<Nicdev007> tomse yes thats right, but the biggest part of the code is in "how" the portal diplays it after
<tomse> Nicdev007: if group == X
<tomse> then build it up as modules, add stuff when group id is higher
<Nicdev007> tomse yes i suppose you are right
<Nicdev007> in this case it can be easily made as a plugin ;-)
<ericthefish> :-)
<Nicdev007> ok so back to the point ... tomse do we agree then that we have 2 features here?
<tomse> Nicdev007: that we do
<Nicdev007> so we should note that in the 2 bugs and put a target on them?
<ericthefish> yes I think we should
<Nicdev007> was that bug 581
-sitbot- Bug 581 - nicdev - acknowledged - open
-sitbot- Abilty for "admincontact" to view incidents over many sites - http://bugs.sitracker.org/view.php?id=581
<dipohl> tomse: don't call it "groups" but "portal-shape" or something like that
<ericthefish> ok are we ready for the next item?
* dipohl ready
<Nicdev007> yep
<ericthefish> at our last meeting we worked on a mission statement
<ericthefish> http://sitracker.org/wiki/Mission_Statement
<ericthefish> we didn't have many people at the meeting I think so we left it as draft, I was hoping that at this meeting we could ratify it
<ericthefish> and related to that, also I'd like us to approve the privacy policy http://sitracker.org/wiki/Privacy_Policy
<Nicdev007> ericthefish: i thin it is quite good as it stands there
<ericthefish> this is not to say we can't change either document in future, just that we've agreed them as is
<ericthefish> thanks Nicdev007
<ericthefish> I'm going to call the missions statement final and accepted unless anybody speaks up now
<Nicdev007> and the privacy policy is quite good too ericthefish
<tomse> ericthefish: agreeing here.. still reading the policy, but so far looks good
<ericthefish> thanks
<ericthefish> ok mission statement agreed
<dipohl> Concerning the privacy policy: Missing the "delete my data" section
<ericthefish> i'll give you a few minutes to think of reasons the privacy policy needs changing
<ericthefish> dipohl: yes, it is isn't it.... I guess the situation is somewhat similar to the "How You Can Access Or Correct Your Information" section except that I'm not sure we can delete some information
<ericthefish> we use information in commit logs but we're not able to remove information from those (without breaking things hugely)
<dipohl> uhh, it's difficult for me to express my thoughts in English..
<dipohl> I try
<ericthefish> google translate?
<dipohl> I think it is important to not care only about collecting but with the same importance to delete data
<dipohl> a "life-cycle"
<dipohl> that includes the vanishing also
<ericthefish> yes
<ericthefish> I agree
<dipohl> And I would like to have a section about that theme in the privacy policy
<dipohl> as a sort of "mission statement" - we are aware of and want to care for..
<ericthefish> would you like to start a section to get us started?
<dipohl> it's not identical to "all data will be deleted"
<ericthefish> we haven't purged any information we've collected yet as far as I know, except for logs etc.
<ericthefish> for example people send emails to us, I don't delete those, but I could if we had a policy of doing so after a certain time
<ericthefish> we do have a policy of removing developer access if it hasn't been used in two years, I guess sometime after that we should delete other related data (whatever that is)
<ericthefish> but then, we also have a policy of restoring developer access if it's needed again after the two years, so for that we need to keep a record of who it was
<ericthefish> I think deleting data probably only applies to certain of the data we collect, like forum data perhaps
<Nicdev007> we say 5 years after last activity ...
<ericthefish> 5 years sounds ok to me
<ericthefish> to be honest I don't think we collect any information that is particularly sensitive
<tomse> don't we delete forum users that's been inactive since they created their user (spammers)
<Nicdev007> personally i'm not that in favour of purging data .. unless space is an issue ...
<ericthefish> tomse: yes we have done that if the accounts don't appear legitimate
<ericthefish> do we need to mention that here? is that relating to privacy though?
<tomse> thats the only place I think we delete user data
<tomse> not really
<Nicdev007> its not the same if it legitimate though ...
<ericthefish> I think we should have a policy for deleting old chat (irc) logs
<Nicdev007> Noooooooooooooooooooo...
<Nicdev007> LOL
<ericthefish> and I think we should consider a similar policy for forum posts... though I'm reluctant
<tomse> I know what you said last summer
<ericthefish> very old forum posts can be useful
<Nicdev007> tomse: LOL
<Nicdev007> i agree ericthefish
<tomse> only if people search through them
<ericthefish> I don't know what I said last summer, I don't know what I said yesterday
<Nicdev007> who are you anyway
<Nicdev007> LOL
<dipohl> ROTFL
<tomse> you said "good morning tomse" yesterday
<ericthefish> why am I here again?
<tomse> hehe
<ericthefish> good morning tomse
<tomse> rotfl
<Nicdev007> ROTFL
<ericthefish> sorry, ok, what was it I said?
<tomse> deletion of irc logs policy
-sitbot- New news from mediawiki: Sit:Privacy policy
<Nicdev007> to summarise .. irc logs purge after 2 years (or somethng)
<Nicdev007> forum posts .. never
<tomse> forum agreed.. irc.. 1 year(?)
<Nicdev007> agreed
<tomse> right now we keep them around 1 year
<Nicdev007> I second
<tomse> I manually move the old logs to an archive
<ericthefish> I think I agree with that, with the exception that I think we should delete data if somebody requests us to do it
<dipohl> it's ok to archive the irc logs of team meetings, I would say
<ericthefish> e.g. if somebody wanted the log for 6th june 2011 (random example) deleted, we would do it
<tomse> that should be written in the policy then
<ericthefish> ok
<Nicdev007> ok
<ericthefish> dipohl: do you think you could try and draft a deletion policy including that for us to work on?
<ericthefish> we'll perhaps put off agreeing the policy until next meeting since it will take some time to bash into shape
<dipohl> I would like to do the DB-Docs before
<Nicdev007> ericthefish: looking at the agenda did we set the date for 3.90Alpha1
<ericthefish> Nicdev007: nope, but that was me being vague because I'm unsure of my available time
<Nicdev007> ok
<ericthefish> we probably should set a target though
<tomse> how about between christmas and newyear ?
<Nicdev007> no tomse thats my testing week!!
<ericthefish> that sounds like a plan
<tomse> usually silent at the offices, and/or days off
<ericthefish> oh it has to be in time for Nicdev007
<Nicdev007> hehehe
<tomse> Nicdev007: yes. precisely.. then you can test the alpha :-)
<ericthefish> lets say 11 December, I'll do my best
<tomse> sounds good
<tomse> should I write that in WP then ?
<ericthefish> whats a WP?
<tomse> wordpress
<dipohl> Earlier you said, you want to merge the current translation files into 3.90
<Nicdev007> sounds good to me ericthefish
<ericthefish> ahh wordpress, erm.. i think I'd rather you didn't for the moment, but it can go on the roadmap.
<dipohl> so this has to be done before 11th of Dec
<ericthefish> dipohl: yeah I would like to do that, that was another thing I wanted before releasing 3.90 alpha
<ericthefish> dipohl: I'm of the opinion that we shouldn't let anything hold 3.90 alpha up now, we can release regular updates the alpha if needed
<Nicdev007> ericthefish: what is still needed apart from the translation merge?
<ericthefish> i don't know how you all feel about that, it does feel scary releasing stuff that isn't finished, but I think that's the reality we've got
<Nicdev007> yeah and it is "Alpha" so now production ready
<dipohl> ;-)
<tomse> haha
<dipohl> avantgarde
<ericthefish> Nicdev007: there are 66 issues remaining, of those four are major bugs
<tomse> ericthefish: as it's only an alpha release I have no problems with it being released now
<ericthefish> 21 minor bugs
<ericthefish> and the rest are tweaks or features
<Nicdev007> so you want to aim for the 4 major ones and then push the rest to Alpha2?
<ericthefish> I'm planning to release with the major still existing (unless a miracle finds me some time) since those bugs are fairly obscure
<Nicdev007> are you going to create new entries for Alpha1 etc in the Roadmap?
<ericthefish> the biggest problem is that it's not possible to delete a trigger, but I'm not so worried about that for an Alpha release
<tomse> I'll see if I can do some of the major ones, when I'm finished working on my current bug
<Nicdev007> i agree ...
<ericthefish> yeah if we find that we need more Alpha releases, which I guess at the moment is pretty certain isn't it
<Nicdev007> yes
<tomse> since 2 of them are trigger related, and I have some knowledge of that now
<Nicdev007> im ok for alpha1 release as is
<ericthefish> cool
<ericthefish> dipohl: if we can do the merge of languages before alpha 1 that'll be great, but I think we just aim to do that when we can and it can be released whenever the next release is after that merge
<ericthefish> I think if we tried to rush it in before a release we'd end up with more work than we could get done and delay a release instead
<dipohl> I am already done with the merge of current German language file if I remember it right
<ericthefish> oh cool
<dipohl> I try to check again in the next days
<ericthefish> ok we're at that point where I ask if anybody else has something they want to bring up that wasn't already on the agenda....
<Nicdev007> nope ok for me
<dipohl> FOSDEM?
<ericthefish> ah yes fosdem, might be worth a chat
<dipohl> I've never been there since
<dipohl> but I hope now in 2012 :-)
<ericthefish> :-)
<ericthefish> it'll be great to meet up with you
<Nicdev007> unfortunately it seems i will not be there this year ... only in spirt
<Nicdev007> *spirit
<tomse> Nicdev007: no worries then.. I'll drink your beers then
<ericthefish> :-( such a shame, you'll be missed!
<ericthefish> maybe we can chat to you via irc and tell you what the beer tastes like
<Nicdev007> yeah a shame indeed ....
<tomse> we'll take revenge in 2013 :-)
<Nicdev007> Hahahahaha
<tomse> perhaps you can even get your job to sponsor your trip
<ericthefish> paul is hoping to come, though I've not heard if he's booked anything yet
<Nicdev007> i think someone owed me a few beers .... i cede them to you guys ;-)
<ericthefish> I've not spoken to xerosis, I should drop him an email
<Nicdev007> tomse: i can convince them to pay .. thats not the holding point
<ericthefish> Nicdev007: yes I think I owe at least a few, I will save some for when we next meet
<tomse> I know :-)
<Nicdev007> yeah
<Nicdev007> everyone staying at the same hotel again?
<tomse> yeah
<dipohl> I hope so
<ericthefish> SantaWolf: do you know whether you're coming to fosdem yet?
<tomse> great hotel, great breakfast
<Nicdev007> i'll join you for  the dev session via irc
<ericthefish> !wiki FOSDEM
-sitbot- See http://sitracker.org/wiki/FOSDEM
<tomse> we should get in touch with techfree
<Nicdev007> i have got to nip out guys ... cu later
<ericthefish> good point
<ericthefish> ok Nicdev007 cheers
<tomse> and hopefully he has an android with lots of monthly transfer
<ericthefish> haha
<tomse> laters Nicdev007, have fun :-)
<tomse> better than paying pr hour at the hotel :-)
<dipohl> bye Nicdev007 - cu later!
<ericthefish> dipohl: I don't know if you've chatted to techfree, he's not been on irc for ages
<tomse> !seen techfree
-sitbot- techfree was last seen in #sit 4 weeks, 6 days, 19 hours, 4 minutes, and 45 seconds ago: <Techfree> nedd to store the if in a var ?
<ericthefish> he lives in Brussels so he met up with us last year and we had a meal together
<dipohl> nice
<ericthefish> ah, not as long ago as I thought
<ericthefish> !seen xerosis
-sitbot- xerosis was last seen in #sit 15 weeks, 5 days, 3 hours, 47 minutes, and 25 seconds ago: <xerosis> hey tomse
<ericthefish> ouch
<tomse> yeah
<dipohl> that is a long time..
<ericthefish> I figured we'd meet up sometime on the friday afternoon or early evening get all the sit people together for a drink, perhaps in the hotel bar again
<dipohl> you say on the wiki page: "not the official FOSDEM party because it's usually ridiculously busy. "
<ericthefish> or another one not too far away, I remember we did find one nice bar not too far away
<tomse> well I'm totally available after arriving
<dipohl> is there free wlan in the hotel bar?
<ericthefish> yeah... the fosdem organisers usually book out the Delerium Cafe, which is an amazing bar with thousands of beers from all over the world, but it's usually so busy it's impossible to move and the queue for a drink is more than 10 deep
<dipohl> ups
<ericthefish> there is paid wifi in the hotel and it does work fromt he bar, it's not very cheap though as I recall
<tomse> €6 or so pr hour
<tomse> or is it pr day ?
<tomse> well if we do some dev. we can just store it locally, and sync at FOSDEM
<dipohl> or we meet at an internet cafe
<ericthefish> it's €10 per hour apparently (if this web page is correct)
<ericthefish> that's more expensive than beer!  that won't do
<dipohl> then we can also stay in IRC
<tomse> thats alot of money
<dipohl> to much money
<ericthefish> at FOSDEM itself there is free wifi and it's fast too, the best conference networking facilities around
<ericthefish> they jokingly put signs up telling us to download more! :-)
<dipohl> Perhaps techfree can make a proposal for a nice internet cafe for friday
<ericthefish> true
<ericthefish> then saturday we'll attend fosdem of course, typically we've all caught a tram together after breakfast to catch the opening talk
<ericthefish> the tram journey is about 2km and takes about 10 or 15 minutes I would say
<dipohl> ack
<ericthefish> Brusells sell a 3 day (not four day unforunately) pass that is quite cheap
<ericthefish> it works for underground (metro) and for tram
<ericthefish> the hotel also sell tram tickets
<dipohl> for 10€ an hour ;(
<ericthefish> lol
<ericthefish> i can't remember the price of the tram, I don't think it's very expensive
<tomse> I think it's a pretty good transportation system they have, and very close to the hotel/university
<tomse> €3 or so
<ericthefish> whilst at fosdem we've also tended to split up to attend talks that interest different people and then meet up at random times in between
<ericthefish> either meeting in between talks or when there is no talk that interests anybody at that moment
<ericthefish> we meet in a cafe that is usually quiet enough to get laptops out and spend some time computing as well as socialising
<dipohl> do you wear SiT! shirts? :)
<ericthefish> we do
<tomse> and FreeBSD t-shirts :-P
* dipohl wears techNixen.net shirts
<ericthefish> I'll order a shirt for you dipohl since SiT! project has bought shirts for people in previous years
<ericthefish> i wasn't going to order new shirts for everybody though, unless there is a great demand for that
<tomse> ericthefish: can I get in on that order, if possible (saving intl transportation)
<dipohl> thanks, ericthefish!
<tomse> I'll pay at fosdem
<ericthefish> sure
<dipohl> what color has the shirt?
<ericthefish> just having a quick look to see if I have photos of us wearing them
<tomse> dipohl: there are multiple colours
<ericthefish> you can choose http://sitracker.spreadshirt.co.uk/
* dipohl curiously waiting for the group pic
<ericthefish> spreadshirt let us customise the shirts so if there's a colour you particularly want let me know and I can create it
<ericthefish> hmm I don't think I took pictures last year, can't find them if I did anyway.  here's pictures from the previous year https://secure.flickr.com/photos/thecrypt/sets/72157623411853084/with/4349288789/
<ericthefish> tomse: did you take any photos?
<dipohl> this model is nice: http://sitracker.spreadshirt.co.uk/navy-blue-large-logo-A14920212/customize/color/4
<tomse> I did.. but not sure if there are any group pics
<ericthefish> dipohl: yeah I think thats the one I have
<tomse> I only brought my android last year.. looking through them
<tomse> hmm no, no group pics
<dipohl> ericthefish: and that's the one, I usually wear ;) http://technixen.spreadshirt.de/nixen-shirt-classic-A16493964
<tomse> I actually got a single pic with you and the t-shirt on
<ericthefish> nice
<ericthefish> uh oh
<ericthefish> sorry for breaking your camera
<tomse> ROTFL
<tomse> gah..
<tomse> couch db
<tomse> still gives me the shivers
<ericthefish> hahahaha
<tomse> imgur seems to be slow today
<ericthefish> well I guess we need call the meeting officially ended so that we do have an end ;-)
<tomse> yeah
<ericthefish> this doesn't mean an end to the developer day
<ericthefish> or the discussion
<tomse> nope.. but now I can ask my question..
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